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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 3, 2010 5:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

I'm honestly curious!

How is adding crowd noise an upgrade?

I did an A/B comparison of the two files.

No comparison in my opinion. Charlies soundboard has more clarity and brilliance. Hunters has some wasted Dutch guy hollering throughout the show...

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Poster: drspark61 Date: Nov 3, 2010 6:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Phil is way out in front of the mix on the SBD. I normally like a lot of Phil, but for some reason I find it distracting here. To my ears, the matrix corrects that and provides a little more balance. Unfortunately the matrix doesn't improve the sound of the rest of the band, which I find really thin and brittle in this recording (especially Jerry and Brent). So in all other regards, I find the two versions interchangeable.

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Poster: elkdog Date: Nov 4, 2010 5:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

They were playing on borrowed gear, in a little club not included on the tour itinerary- it's pretty amazing to me that there are tapes at all, and not a surprise that the sound isn't polished- this is raw, bar band sort of stuff rather than the sonically dialed-in system they used for the rest of the tour. The tapes don't sound amazing, but something about the music that night...



This post was modified by elkdog on 2010-11-04 12:06:24

Attachment: melkweg15.jpg

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 3, 2010 9:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MELKweg matrix from HS

I've compared some tracks on both of them, and still prefer the CM. Maybe for the same reason you prefer the HS -- Phil is a bit more prominent in the CM. I like it when Phil is in front in the mix, and usually, that actually helps me to hear the others better, too ... or maybe it's just that, when you hear Phil well, it's usually a good mix overall? (I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to know.)

In terms of SBD vs AUD vs matrix, well, I do need a regular fix of you-are-there AUDs, but go with SBDs maybe 80 percent of the time for the obvious reasons. So, sure, I like matrixes too. Sort of musical Tex-Mex cuisine. This seems like a great matrix, just prefer the CM myself.

Geez, we're lucky these days to even HAVE a Melkweg, let alone be comparing versions. And, cough cough, it's MELKweg. Not milk. Apparently in Amsterdam, they drink melk. Anyway, weg to go, HS and CM ... it's such a nice show to have!!!

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-11-04 04:12:24

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Poster: duckpond74 Date: Nov 4, 2010 6:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MELKweg matrix from HS

AR, are you from Wisconsin where they usually pronounce their dairy products as "melk"?? or, is this a common occurrence in other states as well??

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 4, 2010 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MELKweg matrix from HS

That was a cheesy comment!

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Poster: snori Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MELKweg matrix from HS

You'd rather be buttered up ?

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: MELKweg matrix from HS

Cheese, you guys are going to melk this for all it's worth.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 3, 2010 7:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

I have weird ears . I can't explain beyond that .
There is a GD reviewer , I forget the handle , that has a similar way sound is processed as me . This reviewer then lists a bunch of shows that they have no sound problems with . They have reviewed many shows and the list accompanies each review . I'll try to find one of their reviews .

edit - I found one of Frosty's reviews . Has anyone had contact with this reviewer ?

Reviewer: Frosty's Picks - September 21, 2008
Subject: Frosty's Picks for the Hearing Impaired
I have major hearing problems. It’s called tinnitus and for those of you who don’t know it is a constant ringing in your ears. Therefore, it is hard for me to find audience shows that are of good enough quality for me to listen to without doing further damage to my hearing (by having to turn up the volume past 5 to even tell what song is being played!). I am not saying anything about these shows except that as a person with major hearing lose, these are some of the shows that I have on my I-Pod. Of course some are better than others. However, I am not giving any of these shows a review. I can always find something good in every show…...as long as I can hear it!!!! Here is my list for today, 9/20/08:

7.6.84, 10.15.84, 6.19.91,
7.18.89, 6.21.84, 9.6.85,
10.12.84, 10.12.83, 11.1.85,
8.24.85, 7.31.82, 6.25.92,
8.5.89, 10.31.83, 6.26.92,
10.8.84, 12.5.81, 8.30.85,
11.5.85, 6.26.84, 8.3.82,
6.8.80, 4.3.84, 8.10.82,
3.14.81, 12.26.80, 4.15.83,
4.18.82, 10.31.91, 9.2.85,
10.14.83, 4.2.90, 4.30.90,
10.14.84,

Please let me know if you have any show suggestions that compare to these in quality of sound. Send suggestions to frostyspicks@live.com.
Peace,
Frosty

This is the show ,
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-12-05.aud.unknown.miller.80290.sbeok.flac16

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-11-04 02:47:27

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 3, 2010 5:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Hey Cliff,

I'll take a shot at this - but start by saying that this issue is pretty well-established as a highly-subjective personal preference thing, and I don't think anybody's going to change your mind about anything. If Hunter himself couldn't, I certainly won't be able to ...

That said, you'll hate my general reason for liking a matrix, which is that the blending of some audience adds atmosphere and excitement, and makes it feel more like the live experience. None of which is to be confused with "sweetening" - we're talking about the union of two contemporaneous recordings, NOT the insertion of random outside noise. We all know that the band famously miked the rooms for the Reckoning and Dead Set recordings, looking for that elusive atmosphere.

But, there are a very small number of shows where I think the matrix provides an actual upgrade - and off the top of my head I can only think of this one and 09/26/81 - because the soundboards suck. Which is no slight on Charlie's work: he can only do so much, and the boards he started with were not good. In these cases, a good matrix will mask some of the board's deficiency and overall provide a more pleasurable listening experience.

Now as you know I am no audiophile, and I know that this answer will not satisfy, but you did ask and that's my best shot at an answer. Again, all highly subjective.

Are the sharks biting?



This post was modified by fenario80 on 2010-11-04 00:56:38

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Poster: fenario80 Date: Nov 3, 2010 5:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

PS Which is also why I wish someone would find a decent aud and take a shot at 09-25-1981. The board is just awful, but it is a solid show.

(Who was at the board that week? Were the regular guys already on their way to Europe or something?)

This post was modified by fenario80 on 2010-11-04 00:57:15

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 4, 2010 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Exactly.

For me, a large part of listening to tapes is not only to enjoy the music, but also the overall live experience, which did include crowd noise. Now I will agree that I find some AUD tapes unlistenable due to either was too much crowd noise overpowering the music or folks close to the mic's loudly interjecting their experiences and opinions directly into said mic. That being said, when an optimal mix is acheived with the SBD source prominent and the AUD source just enough to add the background feel of what was going on in the crowd, I'm quite happy.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 4, 2010 11:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Yeah, I think there is a middle ground. Some crowd noise is definitely desirable. *One person* basically shrieking in your ear song after song is annoying. (That is, one person who does not happen to be a member of the band.)

I was listening to a JGB show like that the other day. It was comical, but after awhile not worth listening. This gal was just losing it. I understood her feelings, but wished she could have controlled herself just a little so I could HEAR JERRY.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Nov 4, 2010 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Just as when seeing them live, having some drug-feuled bi-ped screaming "Darkstar!..Darkstar!!!" at the top of his/her lungs after ever song in hope that the band would hear him and quickly huddle amongst themselves, finally deciding that "Yes, dammit, we WILL play Darkstar instead of Tennessee Jed in the first set tonight!" is incredibly annoying. To me anyway.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2010-11-04 19:27:39

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Nov 4, 2010 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

LOL.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 3, 2010 6:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Thank you for your explanation. The dude going woo woo thoughout the entire show (not audible on the SBD) does not enhance the listening experience for me. To each, his own :)

Have not been offshore much due to the almost constant high winds lately. Someone did get a nice Mako today, but I was fishing for Striped Bass...

Photobucket

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Poster: AltheaRose Date: Nov 3, 2010 9:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

So, did you eat it, or throw it back to grow some more?

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Nov 4, 2010 4:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Fish Tacos!

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Poster: hseamons Date: Nov 3, 2010 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Cliff,

One time I was at a Dead show and this low-life scum started "Whoo-hooing" my ear off and even started bumping and falling into me. "Don't touch me, bitch!" I said several times, but quietly enough for him or others around to not hear what I was saying. He would not stop, though, and I ended up being so agitated that I knocked him in the face with my hand harder than I anticipated - he went down like a $2 whore on New Years Eve in Anchorage. But now I have come to appreciate such revelry on the AUD tapes and feel sorry for what I said and did that night.

peace
Hunter

This post was modified by hseamons on 2010-11-04 02:06:08

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 3, 2010 7:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Ahh , Hunter . Any interesting stories from Anchorage ? That post had specifics and everything ...:-)

Haven't listened to this since '93 . Reminds me of Northern Exposure .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLhHF_Ei7Dg

Nice catch CH

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Poster: hseamons Date: Nov 3, 2010 10:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Lots of two dollar whores in Anchorage - more than Des Moines.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Nov 3, 2010 11:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

A niche market for a travel guide ,
or a video game ?
Possibilities baby !

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Poster: hseamons Date: Nov 3, 2010 6:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Milkweg matrix from HS

Nice catch by the way.